Wheel-building:- spot the mistake

Discussion in 'General Cycling' started by Mike Causer, Sep 8, 2011.

  1. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    Mike Causer, Sep 8, 2011
    #1
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  2. Mike Causer

    Ben C Guest

    Have they made the mistake of putting the first crossing spoke in wrong,
    so you have two spokes to the left flange, then two to the right, then
    two to the left, and you find some of them seem to be far too long and
    others far too short?
     
    Ben C, Sep 8, 2011
    #2
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  3. Ignorance. My son's GF's brother tried to rebuild her wheel with a new
    hub (cassette instead of freehub). It ended up looking a lot like
    that. The phrase "obvious to a blind man" has particular validity
    here: my wheelbuilder of choice is indeed blind, and did a far better
    job.

    Guy
     
    Just zis Guy, you know?, Sep 8, 2011
    #3
  4. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    Yes, all of those from one flange are too long, and all from the other
    flange are too short.

    The basic pattern looks OK, although the over/under-ness of the
    crossings is a mess.




    Mike
     
    Mike Causer, Sep 8, 2011
    #4
  5. Mike Causer

    Ben C Guest

    Sounds like they just used the shorter spokes that were meant for the
    right hand side on the left and vice versa.
     
    Ben C, Sep 8, 2011
    #5
  6. No, they rebuilt the wheel with the same spokes but got the dish wrong
    - the rim is centred between the flanges not the locknuts.

    Guy
     
    Just zis Guy, you know?, Sep 8, 2011
    #6
  7. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    Bingo!

    Shouldn't the excess of thread showing for all the spokes on one side
    been a clue to the builder that there was /something/ wrong? In fact
    there's also several mm of wobble in radial and lateral directions --
    enough to feel while riding. I despair. Still perhaps these problems
    (there are&were more) brought the price down to something I could
    consider. Yes, the bike's somewhat desirable in pristine form, if you
    like 1960s Moultons, as I do.


    Heh, now all I have to do is discover what make that freewheel is and
    find someone with the right tool to remove it, and then replace all the
    spokes with new ones. And build it right. No linseed oil, no Loctite ;-)

    Maybe I'll bring the finished wheel inside and compare the spokes to my
    Yamaha electronic keyboard....



    Mike
     
    Mike Causer, Sep 8, 2011
    #7
  8. Mike Causer

    thirty-six Guest

    Looks like (obviously a picture of the spoke pattern would help) the
    left side may have been built x4 instead of x3. Doesn't give a lot to
    play with.
     
    thirty-six, Sep 8, 2011
    #8
  9. Mike Causer

    Ron Lowe Guest

    Photo 1 could be better: it's not square-on to the rim.

    If the centre of the opposite side of the rim were visible through the
    valve-hole, the error would have been clearer.
     
    Ron Lowe, Sep 8, 2011
    #9
  10. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    It's an ETRTO 369 rim. Even on small-flange Campagnolo hub X3
    is going to be hard, X4 would be impossible -- IMO, I've never tried
    more than X2 on those rims.

    Perhaps the clues (like the Flickr folder it's in) are too subtle.



    Mike
     
    Mike Causer, Sep 9, 2011
    #10
  11. Mike Causer

    Tosspot Guest

    Tosspot, Sep 9, 2011
    #11
  12. Mike Causer

    Tosspot Guest

    My vote. I did it once not paying attention. Undo the whole lot, start
    again. Remarkable how long it took me to notice.
     
    Tosspot, Sep 9, 2011
    #12
  13. Mike Causer

    thirty-six Guest

    I didn't look that hard. I noticed that the spokes weren't interlaced
    on the left which suggests a small wheel, but it is also a getaround
    when using too short a spoke. The mistake of creating one more cross
    than accounted in the spoke length results in the sort of error you
    see. It's usually doable if you can accept the rim being off centre.
    I guess you'll not try and see that the spokes will work with one less
    crossing.
     
    thirty-six, Sep 9, 2011
    #13
  14. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    That's a top-of-the-line rim, that is. Well, it was in 1965.

    It probably had to be made specially for Moulton, because no-one else
    used the 369 size in aluminium. Note is /is/ 369, not the usual 1960s
    Moulton 349. When Moulton restarted production in the 1980s they had
    to make their own rims then.



    Mike
     
    Mike Causer, Sep 9, 2011
    #14
  15. Mike Causer

    David Guest

    "Mike Causer" wrote in message
    Is that a Speed 6 you have there?
    Got any pictures?
     
    David, Sep 9, 2011
    #15
  16. Mike Causer

    mrc7--urcm Guest

    Yes I spotted the Group folder and then thought I sure hope that it
    wasn't an original AM build for that wheel!

    Mike
     
    mrc7--urcm, Sep 9, 2011
    #16
  17. Mike Causer

    Tosspot Guest

    <sniff> Well, if it's a 1965 rim it's clearly doing well. <checks
    rythmetic> 46 years old! Mate, you need to replace your wheels very so
    often...
     
    Tosspot, Sep 9, 2011
    #17
  18. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    On Fri, 09 Sep 2011 14:29:21 +0100
    I've no idea who rebuilt it, or why. The spokes, rim and hub (Campag
    Record) show no obvious sign of damage or replacement. But the frame
    was replaced too, so the bike definitely has a checkered history.



    Mike
     
    Mike Causer, Sep 9, 2011
    #18
  19. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    Oh, and on my 1939, 1964, other 1965, 1983 and 1988 bikes too? What
    about the 1998 one, is that so old it should have its wheels replaced?
    All of them are still on original wheels, although I've re-spoked a
    couple. If they're not worn out or damaged why replace them?


    Mike
     
    Mike Causer, Sep 9, 2011
    #19
  20. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    Partly. F&R forks, wheels, dérailleur and brake levers are Speedsix,
    Frame and brakes (probably) are De Luxe. Cranks, saddle, stem and bars
    are a mixture, ranging from contemporary Brookes saddle to new Cinelli
    bars.

    Didn't cost me Speedsix price though :))

    After I've cleaned it up and made it all work properly I'll take some.


    It's definitely going to be my mount for the VCC/MBC Cambridge 50 next
    year!



    Mike
     
    Mike Causer, Sep 10, 2011
    #20
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