Recumbent trial

Discussion in 'Cycling Archive' started by Nick Maclaren, Jul 15, 2015.

  1. Has anyone used Tryker tyres? I suspect that the tooth-rattling
    ride was due to them being fitted (and at 60 psi) when I was riding
    over roughish tarmac, and that definitely cost me some speed in
    'rolling resistance'. They are also NBG on leaf litter up a 1:10
    slope.

    Anyway, I did 4 rides on the recumbent, interleaving 2 up the upright,
    and was was only c. 8% slower on the former at c. 10 MPH up a 1:50
    roughish tarmac road. Allowing for inexperience, lossy tyres, not
    able to stretch my legs, that's close enough for horseshoes.

    What I wasn't able to test properly was how steep a slope I could
    ride up, because the standard model of ICE doesn't extend quite far
    enough for me. I wasn't prepared to risk knee damage by trying.
    Bother.


    Regards,
    Nick Maclaren.
     
    Nick Maclaren, Jul 15, 2015
    #1
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  2. Nick Maclaren

    kimble Guest

    Not personally, but consensus on YACF seems to be that they're admirably
    grippy, roll okay and hopeless for punctures.

    Tadpole trikes with supple tyres (I've played with Kojaks) certainly
    seem to benefit from fine-tuning of tyre pressure for optimal rolling on
    that horrible rough chip-seal stuff. With less supple tyres you're
    stuffed regardless, unless the trike has front suspension.

    TBH I don't think any fast-rolling tyre's going to help much in that
    scenario on its own. Lack of weight on the rear wheel is a large part
    of the problem. 26" rear wheels seem to make a difference compared to
    20" on loose stuff, and will roll better generally (but are perhaps
    unhelpful if you're aiming for very low gears).

    Sounds about right to me.

    Shame.


    Kim.
    --
     
    kimble, Jul 16, 2015
    #2
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  3. Thanks very much.
    It did have! It was actually more that the surface was degraded,
    and the problem was the relatively high-frequency (10 Hz?) drumming.
    I was surprised at just HOW badly they rolled as soon as the surface
    became less than very smooth. I didn't even notice the unevenness
    on the upright with Marathon Plus Tour at 50 psi, either in comfort
    or speed.
    Or compact folding :-( Thanks for that. That is definitely an issue.
    I still need to consider the rolling efficiency and comfort over less
    than perfect surfaces, because my interest is in locations where ALL
    roads are like that!
    I am going to have to think. One option would be a Schlumpf mountain
    drive on the front, which would give a bottom gear of 10" rather than
    over 15".


    Regards,
    Nick Maclaren.
     
    Nick Maclaren, Jul 16, 2015
    #3
  4. In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Thu, 16 Jul 2015 09:54:49 +0100 (BST)
    Lots of trikers with small wheels go for Schwalbe Big Apples.
    Apparently very good in the comfort over rough surface department.

    The bentrideronline forum triking section (under specialty) might be
    worth asking about tyres.


    Zebee
     
    Zebee Johnstone, Jul 16, 2015
    #4
  5. Thanks very much. I will do that. Big Apples are default on what I
    was looking at and, if they are as good on 20" as Marathon Plus Tour
    is on 26", that would be fine.


    Regards,
    Nick Maclaren.
     
    Nick Maclaren, Jul 16, 2015
    #5
  6. In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Thu, 16 Jul 2015 11:48:58 +0100 (BST)
    http://www.bentrideronline.com/messageboard/showthread.php?t=120298
    may have useful info.

    Zebee
     
    Zebee Johnstone, Jul 16, 2015
    #6
  7. Nick Maclaren

    kimble Guest

    We fitted a pair of those to the front of my partner's ICE Sprint (no
    front suspension) after a particularly rough ride aggravated her
    shoulder problems. I've only briefly ridden the trike myself since (on
    a potholed but reasonably smooth surface, not that annoying buzzy
    stuff), but they do seem to take the edge off the bumps. She seems to
    think they're an improvement on chip-seal too, but coming from Marathon
    Plus it'd be hard not to be.

    I can't usefully comment on how well they roll, as the trike was being
    used with electric assist.

    (We've kept a Marathon Plus on the rear, which has elastomer suspension
    anyway, as that's got the hub motor - with associated wiring and torque
    arm - making it a faff to remove the wheel.)

    No punctures so far, but not an awful lot of mileage either.


    Kim.
    --
     
    kimble, Jul 16, 2015
    #7
  8. Interesting. What size and pressure of Marathon Plus? I have no
    problem with it on mine, but that is 700x42 at 50 psi. As I said,
    the Tryker at 60 psi was horrible.


    Regards,
    Nick Maclaren.
     
    Nick Maclaren, Jul 16, 2015
    #8
  9. Nick Maclaren

    Rob Morley Guest

    I use the 26 x 2.0/2.35 on bikes, they're a good balance of comfort and
    easy rolling because they don't need a lot of pressure (being fat and
    supple with minimal tread). I suspect you'd want pretty wide rims on a
    trike if you want to use wide soft tyres.
     
    Rob Morley, Jul 16, 2015
    #9
  10. Nick Maclaren

    kimble Guest

    Something like 35-406, at 80PSI or so. The smaller wheel makes quite a
    difference to the smoothness of the ride, it seems. (I've not tried M+
    on a Brompton, but I expect that makes up for it with its silly
    elastomer and spectacular frame flex.)

    They're also a right bastard to fit. Admirably puncture-resistant, of
    course.


    Kim.
    --
     
    kimble, Jul 16, 2015
    #10
  11. In uk.rec.cycling.moderated on Thu, 16 Jul 2015 20:36:47 +0100
    I did notice a better ride on the Bacchetta when I went from 20"
    to 24" on the front. Mind you I also went from a Kenda to a Durano
    tyre and so it's not a straight comparison.

    The Brom definitely feels the bumps on M+ but nowhere near as much as
    the carbon Encore does... The Bacchetta had a mesh seat and steel
    frame, dunno how much the frame makes a difference in the bump
    department but oh dear how I miss the mesh seat!
    Never had a problem on the 26" wheel. I did have to fight the Brom a
    little bit but not as much as many people say

    But then I have tyre levers and I am not afraid to use them.

    Zebee
     
    Zebee Johnstone, Jul 16, 2015
    #11
  12. Possibly depends on what your comparing it to, roadies genrally complain
    that M+ has a harsh ride.

    I would agree it has a fairly stiff wooden ride, though ride and grip is
    improved with lower psi, I ran 700 X 25 at 60psi, can't recall with 700
    x 38 (which I assume your 700x42 is? since I've never seen that size of
    M+ in the flesh or online.

    compared to racing ralphs in CX or MTB form they are harsh and sluggish,
    but they aren't intended as light racing tyres.

    Roger Merriman
     
    Roger Merriman, Jul 16, 2015
    #12
  13. I've had 700x25/38 forms and my wife has 28's can't recall having much
    trouble with them. can be stiff but then so can road slicks and DH mtb
    tyres.

    Roger Merriman
     
    Roger Merriman, Jul 16, 2015
    #13
  14. Actually, I think that it depends far more on the surface. I have
    noticed several times that people on road racers are FAR more
    affected than I am on my roadster (with Marathon Plus on the rear).
    In one case, I was overtaken on smoothish tarmac, only to overtake
    (and piss off!) the lycroid when we hit some roughish surface.
    What I can't be sure of for anyone else is how much it is the extra
    'rolling resistance' and how much being unable to tolerate the
    hammering.

    In this case, the relative drag increased much less on my upright,
    though some of that will be the 700 versus 422 mm wheels. But I
    rode another ICE before with Marathon Plus, and remember the ride
    being pretty smooth even over dirt track. What I may not have
    ridden over was a surface with the same type of roughness. And, of
    course, it might have been because the shop were pressure addicts,
    and the Tryker would be OK at a saner pressure.


    Regards,
    Nick Maclaren.
     
    Nick Maclaren, Jul 17, 2015
    #14
  15. Nick Maclaren

    kimble Guest

    That's the thing that really struck me about the Brompton. While
    there's enough give in the frame and bouncy rear suspension that the
    ride isn't especially harsh, the effect of rolling resistance from
    certain surfaces is dramatic. (After some debate with the guy in the
    LBS I'm using the Brompton Green tyres, which are considered to be the
    next step down from the non-Plus Marathon in terms of rolling
    resistance. I reckon I can replace them with Marathons if punctures
    turn out to be a problem, but I've not had any so far.)

    There's a stretch of road I ride regularly that's a very mild uphill
    slope - the sort of thing that looks flat, but you're inexplicably a
    couple of mph slower than you think you should be. Halfway along the
    smooth tarmac with avoidable ruts and potholes becomes newish, fairly
    course, chip-seal. At that point the Streetmachine, with its 20"/26"
    wheels clad in 40mm Marathons and clever suspension gets much noisier (I
    think the non-drive-side chain resonates) and continues unabated. The
    rigid Dawes hybrid with 700c 28mm Marathons starts to rattle your wrists
    mercilessly, but doesn't seem to slow down. And the Brompton (with 16",
    37mm Brompton Greens) suddenly feels like there's a strong headwind.

    I don't have anything with road racing tyres to compare, unfortunately.


    Kim.
    --
     
    kimble, Jul 17, 2015
    #15
  16. to be honest lot of that is simply tyre sizes 23/25mm at 100psi vs 38's
    at 50psi?marathon's have much stiffer and more robust construction, the sidewalls
    could hold the hybrid's rim off the ground at 0psi! but compared to
    tyres of equal size, I had some at 25mm and even at lower psi they have
    a fairly harse, and wooden ride.

    25mm cheap road training tyres are less harsh tyres vs 25mm Marathon
    pluses and CX 33mm tyres are equally less harsh than 38mm Marathon
    pluses.

    in both cases they also puncture more easly and are faster feeling etc.
    some tyres do seem to need to drop/raise presures before they are right.
    Roger Merriman
     
    Roger Merriman, Jul 18, 2015
    #16
  17. Almost certainly almost all of it. But my point is that the surface
    makes SO much difference that I would expect it to show up as a major
    factor between tyres as well. I would really like to seem some proper
    measurements, but would not be easy or cheap. Almost all of the
    published data are for laboratory conditions :-(
    Interesting. Of course, 'faster feeling' can also be slower; if their
    roadholding is less solid, that would equate to feeling faster at the
    same speed.

    I find Marathon Plus Tour pretty comfortable, but it is 42 mm at 50 psi.
    I have just put a 37 mm on the front, to replace a cheap 'temporary'
    replacement of some years back, and will see if I notice the difference.
    But, of course, being upright, I am not carrying weight on my hands;
    that makes a HELL of a difference. And I have a gel saddle on a cheap
    sprung post.
    Yes. I saw something recently (linked to from Bent Rider Online?),
    where someone tried at 40, 50, 60 and 70 psi, and was amazed at the
    difference between 50 and 60 psi. That could well be due to timing
    constant changes, and it might explain my dire experience with the
    Tryker.


    Regards,
    Nick Maclaren.
     
    Nick Maclaren, Jul 18, 2015
    #17
  18. I suspect that it would be hard to realistic get more than a genral
    yardstick any way, different size wheels/widths and then construction ie
    how supple they are, and so on.

    the thin CX tyres are faster/more supple/comfty than touring tyres such
    as M+ and clearly more fragile I ripped one the other day on some flint.

    there was some data around 29ers when they first came out, but it may
    well be opinion dressed as fact, roll over was the then term.

    you can feel some of this with road slicks, which get noticably harder
    on grass/gravel paths.

    where as with wider tyres there is less differnce, even on the old MTB
    with paniers and what not, I'll overtake CX riders on rougher parts of
    the tow paths and simular since with fatter tyres and suspension forks,
    the lumps and bumps are smoothed out.
    like for like marathon plus with it's stiff sidwalls and hard durable
    tread, is not playing to it's strenghts ie road holding or rolling
    resistance.

    ie 25mm road tyres and CX 33mm tyes with supple sidewalls and softer
    rubber will more than be the equal of a broadly simular sized M+

    I've have charge spoon or simular on my 3 bikes, CX I am reasonably
    forward though with decent tyres it's comftable even brighton to london
    via Downslink/river wey tow path plus a nip over the south downs.

    But I am a old MTBer so I tend to stand up a fair bit so don't end up
    locked in postion.
    some tyres do seem to need micro managment, others just seem to work!
    Roger merriman
     
    Roger Merriman, Jul 19, 2015
    #18
  19. Right. What, however, is thoroughly misleading is assuming that the
    tyres and pressures with lowest rolling resistance under laboratory
    conditions will be so on the road.
    Yeah. That's why I am changing from a cheap, supple one to a Marathon
    Plus. My commute has a lot of flint chips, and I removed half a dozen
    when repairing a puncture, and again when replacing it. I agree that
    they are only moderately comfortable, but they ARE durable!
    That's my approach, too! A traditional roadster is designed for that
    sort of use, that being what roads were like then.
    I used to do more, but am no longer strong enough to hold my weight
    with knees bent for hours at a stretch. Walking is OK, as they are
    locked for most of their weight-bearing time.
    Yes. That's why I am enquiring for experiences - trying things out
    gets expensive.


    Regards,
    Nick Maclaren.
     
    Nick Maclaren, Jul 19, 2015
    #19
  20. oh sure some tyres seem to like higher pressures, while others you can
    drop really very low and they still roll ok.

    simple rules such as purely high pressure = low rolling while broadly
    true aren't that helpful.
    to be honest for road bikes/racers etc cheaper tends to be more durable,
    than the faster more full on racing tyres.

    same really for CX tyres.

    hybrid tyres tend not to be too fragile but top end tends to be marathon
    or marathon a like.

    MTB on the whole, posher tend to be more robust, and have sidewalls
    intended to resist being cut. bar full on XC race tyres.
    there are plenty of old roads though some are more MTB.
    Roger Merriman
     
    Roger Merriman, Jul 20, 2015
    #20
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