Benefits of cycle training

Discussion in 'Health, Fitness and Training' started by Alex Potter, Jan 9, 2011.

  1. Alex Potter

    Alex Potter Guest

    A discussion around cycle training, being had elsewhere, has led me to
    wonder about the effect it has on cyclist safety.

    Are there statistics concerning the relative accident rates of trained
    versus untrained cyclists?
     
    Alex Potter, Jan 9, 2011
    #1
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  2. Alex Potter

    Simon Mason Guest

    You would have to be more specific. Many cyclists train indoors at this time
    of the year, either at home on turbo trainers or in gyms at spinning
    classes. Do you mean accident rates amongst these groups?

    Are you talking about training for school children to prepare them for on
    road cycling?

    Is it London adult cycle training carried out for newbies who want to use
    the Boris bikes scheme you are talking about?

    Is it cycling club training where groups of club members go out training in
    groups of about a dozen on country roads?

    "Training" and "cycling" can mean many things.
     
    Simon Mason, Jan 9, 2011
    #2
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  3. Alex Potter

    Toom Tabard Guest

    Don't know about statistics, and whether it needs any, but in general
    a knowledge/awareness/training in defensive use of the roads, whether
    as a cyclist/pedestrian/driver is going to improve the safety of
    yourself and others. If you allow for the fact that others may behave
    irresponsibly and that you and others will make mistakes and
    misjudgements, then you are going to be safer. Statistics may the show
    extent to which training/awareness, helmets and high visibilty improve
    safety, but otherwise it's reasonably obvious that attention to these
    factors will make you safer. The extent to which they will make you
    safer is largely up to individual action and awareness.The extent to
    which this is obvious, or needs to be imbued by training, depends on
    individual awareness and attitudes.

    Toom
     
    Toom Tabard, Jan 9, 2011
    #3
  4. Alex Potter

    Alex Potter Guest

    Indeed, and I should have been more specific.

    I was referring to training such as is provided by Bikeability (sp?)
    schemes.
     
    Alex Potter, Jan 9, 2011
    #4
  5. Alex Potter

    Alex Potter Guest

    That's where I have a problem. These things may be "reasonably obvious",
    but whatever evidence I've seen so far, for helmets and hi-viz at least,
    is ambivalent at best.

    I think that training is a different thing, apples as opposed to pears or
    bananas, because it can overtly affect the cyclist's behaviour. I agree
    that no statistics are /necessary/; however, I'd find them of interest if
    they existed and were to hand. I hope that they'd confirm my suspicions.
     
    Alex Potter, Jan 9, 2011
    #5
  6. Alex Potter

    Simon Mason Guest

    I would imagine it would be very difficult to find any useful statistics in
    that case. As a recent road cycling casualty myself, at no point was I asked
    how much on road training I had undergone, or if I was a member of a club
    etc. No one asked if I had a cycling proficiency badge or had been on any
    scheme. Much fuss was made over my lack of helmet though, even though it had
    not been touched at all.

    As an interesting aside, I have had two cycling proficiency test passes as a
    boy and lots of cycle training at school and yet passed my full motorcycle
    test having had no lessons or training whatsoever and I also passed my car
    test after having had no school or formal lessons either.

    Again, after all of my m/c crashes and my single car crash has anyone
    queried what training I had undergone.
     
    Simon Mason, Jan 9, 2011
    #6
  7. Alex Potter

    Alex Potter Guest

    Then I guess we'd have to know how the rate of cyclists KSI varied with
    that of the cycle-trained population, if indeed that varies much, year on
    year. Are there statistics regarding the proportion of the population
    that has received cycle training?
    Similar experience here, although I only had the one badge, and did my
    tests in the order tractor, car, motorcycle.
     
    Alex Potter, Jan 9, 2011
    #7
  8. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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    I believe there have been either seven or twelve reported accidents
    with the Boris bikes thus far, with well over a million journeys. The
    riders do not appear to me to be, in the main, what one would describe
    as experienced cyclists.

    I think the fact that the bikes are in good mechanical order is
    probably significant here; I don't know what will happen as they begin
    to age.
    - --
    Guy Chapman, http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk
    The usenet price promise: all opinions are guaranteed
    to be worth at least what you paid for them.
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    Just zis Guy, you know?, Jan 9, 2011
    #8
  9. Alex Potter

    Matt B Guest

    If you mean cyclist road safety training - I don't know of any specific
    statistics for the effect of such cyclist training, but I do know that
    proponents of "risk homeostasis" and "risk compensation" hypothesise
    that improved skill (the result of training) can lead to increased risk
    taking - and thus increased accident numbers.
     
    Matt B, Jan 9, 2011
    #9
  10. Alex Potter

    Tony Raven Guest

    I am not aware of any data. The only related data is quite old and is
    that CTC members and the US equivalent League of American Bicyclists,
    have about one eighth the accident rate of college level educated adults.

    Accidents per million miles

    Children 720
    College Associated Adults 500
    League of American Bicyclists 113
    CTC members 66

    John Forrester, Effective Cycling
    http://tinyurl.com/34fo4nm

    Kaplan also showed in 1975 that as cycling experience increased,
    accident rates fell dramatically although serious accident rates didn't.
    http://www.bikexprt.com/research/kaplan/index.htm

    Tony
     
    Tony Raven, Jan 9, 2011
    #10
  11. Alex Potter

    Tom Crispin Guest

    I expect the biggest benefit in Bikeability and similar schemes is
    giving parents the confidence to allow their children out on their
    bikes. And as we all know, the more people cycle the safer it becomes.
     
    Tom Crispin, Jan 9, 2011
    #11
  12. Alex Potter

    Tony Raven Guest

    I think you are out of date and it's 2 million journeys now. My anecdotal
    observation is drivers are much more wary round Boris Bike users,
    presumably because they view them as inexperienced and unpredictable.
    Another example of risk homeostasis?

    Tony
     
    Tony Raven, Jan 9, 2011
    #12
  13. Alex Potter

    Toom Tabard Guest

    There is no evidence other than that being seen and being protected to
    the extent of mitigating some of the effects of a collision are
    advantageous.
    It is indeed a separate thing; the effects of being aware of the
    issues and dangers is itself advantqageous but will probably also
    influence the protective issues of whether you wear high viz and a
    helmet , and the effects of the separate issues offer a cumulative
    advantage if you invoke them. The statistics, if available, may be
    interesting but the issues of increased safety are not in doubt.

    Toom
     
    Toom Tabard, Jan 9, 2011
    #13
  14. Alex Potter

    Peter Clinch Guest

    If the training is bad then it could potentially increase handling
    technique and have no effect on awareness, but that would be pretty
    crappy training.

    A great deal of training (I'm an accredited cycle trainer btw) is
    not so much about skills as techniques, specifically techniques
    that reduce your potential for conflicts and thus prangs. Riding a
    meter out from the kerb doesn't require any more /skill/ than
    riding in the gutter (probably less, if anything), for example.
    Similarly, not swinging in and out between parked motors rather
    than taking a straight line isn't about skill, it's about knowledge.

    So I think in this case it's probably a blind alley.

    I haven't seen statistical evidence of what effect training has though.

    Pete.
     
    Peter Clinch, Jan 9, 2011
    #14
  15. Alex Potter

    Adam Funk Guest

    OK, how do you *look* inexperienced & unpredictable without actually
    being that way?
    ;-)
     
    Adam Funk, Jan 9, 2011
    #15
  16. Alex Potter

    Tony Raven Guest

    Ride a Boris Bike ;-)
     
    Tony Raven, Jan 9, 2011
    #16
  17. Alex Potter

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Inexperienced I'm not sure, unpredictable's easy: ride a 'bent.

    Ian Walker found a wig suggesting femininity gacve him more space.

    Pete.
     
    Peter Clinch, Jan 9, 2011
    #17
  18. There is however the possibility of increased risk taking in the
    sense of cycling on more direct routes or undertaking journeys that
    would not be attempted without the additional skills. Although this
    may increase risk above the, presumably improved, post training risk
    of the subject's previous pattern of cycling, it could increase the
    prevalence and utility of cycling too.
     
    Percy Picacity, Jan 9, 2011
    #18
  19. Alex Potter

    Danny Colyer Guest

    Probably because it made him look unpredictable ;-)
     
    Danny Colyer, Jan 9, 2011
    #19
  20. Alex Potter

    thirty-six Guest

    Yes, the risk taking an experienced cyclist takes though will be away
    from the track of an oncoming or following vehicle. For example , he
    may take a right hand bend near the limits of adhesion, should he
    fall, he slides into the verge, away from other road users. Training
    in cycle skills is important and valuable, even when self-taught. The
    knowledge that you can brake hard AND steer means avoidance of the
    hook turn, it is not a position a skilled and experienced cyclist puts
    himself in, but a position forced upon him by another road user.
     
    thirty-six, Jan 10, 2011
    #20
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