BBC R2 Jeremy Vine on cycle helmets.

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by Simon Mason, May 20, 2011.

  1. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    Simon Mason, May 20, 2011
    #1
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  2. Esra Sdrawkcab, May 20, 2011
    #2
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  3. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    Well to his credit, Vine shot her down when he said that in Australia
    since helmet complusion, the casualty rate for cyclists had gone up,
    while the numbers of people cycling had gone down.

    She seemed a bit flustered by this and just kept to the party line -
    "Extensive research" without really stating any.
     
    Simon Mason, May 20, 2011
    #3
  4. Simon Mason

    mrc7--urcm Guest

    In message <op.vvr3ifxohswpfo@dell3100>
    The causal association is so obviously overwhelming isn't it!

    "Tour de France
    Tour de France Tour de France leader Chris Boardman
    crashed during Stage 3 when he touched the wheel of another rider. He
    injured his wrist, had severe facial lacerations, and evidence of a
    concussion. He was released from the hospital the following day but
    could not continue the Tour. He was wearing a cycle helmet. Italian
    Fabio Casarteli crashed on a quick descent in the Pyrenees Mountains
    during the 1996 Tour de France. He went into a coma and died in the
    hospital. He was the reigning Olympic road race champion. He was not
    wearing a helmet."


    Repeat after me, anecdotes are not data.

    Mike
     
    mrc7--urcm, May 20, 2011
    #4
  5. Simon Mason

    Peter Clinch Guest

    What is more interesting, perhaps, is that despite the above incident
    Boradman went on to write a fairly well researched piece for (IIRC) Pro
    Cycling in where he outlined in quite considerable detail why he often
    doesn't wear one. That was (also IIRC) in response to various readers
    who'd complained he was "irresponsible" in being photographed doing
    road-tests for the magazine while not wearing one.

    I wonder if CB knows he's being used as a Great Reason to wear an item
    of safety equipment he seems to feel is unnecessary for a lot of cycling?

    Pete.
     
    Peter Clinch, May 20, 2011
    #5
  6. Simon Mason

    Simon Mason Guest

    He has often been spotted reconning Tour de France routes for ITV/C4
    while on a bike and I've never seen him with a helmet either.
     
    Simon Mason, May 20, 2011
    #6
  7. Simon Mason

    Ian Guest

    wrote in message
    The causal association is so obviously overwhelming isn't it!

    "Tour de France
    Tour de France Tour de France leader Chris Boardman
    crashed during Stage 3 when he touched the wheel of another rider. He
    injured his wrist, had severe facial lacerations, and evidence of a
    concussion. He was released from the hospital the following day but
    could not continue the Tour. He was wearing a cycle helmet. Italian
    Fabio Casarteli crashed on a quick descent in the Pyrenees Mountains
    during the 1996 Tour de France. He went into a coma and died in the
    hospital. He was the reigning Olympic road race champion. He was not
    wearing a helmet."


    Repeat after me, anecdotes are not data.

    Mike

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    His helmet did nothing to help Wouter Weylandt in the Giro

    Ian
    --
     
    Ian, May 20, 2011
    #7
  8. Simon Mason

    nmm1 Guest

    Well, it's not QUITE true. They are data, but they are the very
    lowest form of it, and really only indicate that there might be
    something to investigate.

    Observational data is the lowest form that is of much use, and
    that doesn't do much more than provide existence tests and
    indicative information. But, if you deny that it is data, you
    are also damning most of the founding fathers of many sciences,
    and even some sciences!

    You could regard this as observational data, but then would have
    to accept that the observations also included the fact that the
    accidents weren't comparable, and that was a more likely cause
    of the difference.


    Regards,
    Nick Maclaren.
     
    nmm1, May 20, 2011
    #8
  9. In
    Just to add fuel to the fire, the doctor who attended Casartelli stated that
    even had he been wearing a helmet he would not have survived the crash.
     
    Dave Larrington, May 23, 2011
    #9
  10. Simon Mason

    nmm1 Guest

    Surprise, surprise! I haven't searched hard, but I haven't seen
    any study that attempted to distinguish between survivable and
    non-survivable accidents in this context. One or two have done
    something with whether other serious injury existed, but it was
    not very reliable.


    Regards,
    Nick Maclaren.
     
    nmm1, May 23, 2011
    #10
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