Advanced stop zones and red light jumping - a barrister's view

Discussion in 'General Cycling' started by Mike Causer, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    Mike Causer, Aug 23, 2011
    #1
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  2. Are any of the cycling lobbying groups making active efforts to get
    the ASL law changed, so that we can legally enter them through the
    first stop line, instead of through the feeder (which doesn't exist in
    many Edinburgh ASLs)?
     
    Julian Bradfield, Aug 23, 2011
    #2
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  3. Mike Causer

    Simon Mason Guest

    Simon Mason, Aug 23, 2011
    #3
  4. Mike Causer

    Ian Jackson Guest

    I doubt it, and I hope not. That would be a complete waste of
    valuable time, effort and political capital. No cyclist is going to
    be prosecuted for the technical offence of not entering the stop box
    through the feeder lane and no-one but experts (self-taught or
    otherwise) on road traffic law even knows it's technically prohibited.
     
    Ian Jackson, Aug 23, 2011
    #4
  5. Mike Causer

    Rob Morley Guest

    Why bother when motor vehicles are allowed to drive across the line
    anyway?
     
    Rob Morley, Aug 23, 2011
    #5
  6. But since the author of the cited report specifically asked police
    forces whether they'd prosecuted anybody for this technical offence,
    those police forces have had it pointed out to them that they can.
    Technical offences that "everybody knows" won't be prosecuted are bad
    for many reasons.
     
    Julian Bradfield, Aug 23, 2011
    #6
  7. Mike Causer

    thirty-six Guest

    If there is no feeder then the signage does not comply with the
    regulations (I think), the advanced line therefore is irrelevant as
    there is no control for it, whether or not the intention is for it to
    be associated as a second stop line with the traffic signals. It's a
    line which means nothing in law. It's the same if the box is not of
    the regulatory size.
     
    thirty-six, Aug 24, 2011
    #7
  8. I believe you're correct, diagram 1001.2 referred to be TSRGD 43(2):

    http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/tss/tsmanual/trafficsignsmanualchapter5.pdf

    16.21 Vehicles other than cycles must stop at the
    first line when signalled to do so. An advisory or
    mandatory cycle lane, preferably 1.5m wide, must be
    provided to enable cyclists to enter the reservoir
    lawfully, i.e. without crossing the first stop line.

    There are many ASL boxes in Cambridge which aren't legal.
     
    Daniel Dignam, Aug 24, 2011
    #8
  9. Mike Causer

    mrc7--urcm Guest

    In message <>

    [snip]
    This legal requirement and design aspect of forward stop boxes is of
    course deeply flawed as can be witnessed every day in Cambridge. Most
    cyclists fail to use the full width of the forward stop box and
    essentially form a queue stretching back in a line into the filter lane.
    To some extent this is understandable because if you were to enter via
    the filter lane, the low speed tangential to traffic manoeuvres required
    to then move across and occupy the full width of the box are both
    difficult and also place you in a vulnerable position if the lights
    change before you are ready.

    My own attitude is to ignore the legal technicalities and to enter the
    box at any point across its width, even if that requires crossing the
    first stop line with the lights on red.

    Mike
     
    mrc7--urcm, Aug 24, 2011
    #9
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