A useful discussion? ( A helmet thread)

Discussion in 'Technical Chat' started by Marc, Jun 6, 2011.

  1. Marc

    Marc Guest

    I was managing the start/finish of the Dragon Ride yesterday. About 3/4
    through the day a St John Ambulance officer came up and asked me if I
    thought it would be a good idea remind finished riders to wear a helmet
    as she had seen lots of them cycling back the the car parks without
    helmets. I took a deep breath...

    I then told her that I didn't think it would be a good idea as helmet
    wearing was a controversy within cycling circles , and whilst it was
    "obvious" and "common sense " to wear a helmet the reality was a bit
    more complicated. I then gave her the 115 pa death rate ( which suprised
    her as being so low), followed up with a breakdown of how those deaths
    were recorded, threw in a few mentions of HGVs and left hooks, and added
    a mention of risk compensation and the "Blonde Wig" experiment.

    When she left (I'm not sure if it was because I had bored her to death)
    she either had a new appreciation of the helmet debate, or she wasn't
    going to try and enforce her idea of "common sense" , either way I
    counted it as a "result".
     
    Marc, Jun 6, 2011
    #1
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  2. Marc

    Wm... Guest

    Mon, 6 Jun 2011 14:20:14 <isid6g$bi4$>
    Heh, I hope you didn't bend her ear too much. It can be quite a lot to
    take in all at once.

    My thinking is that the lady saw you as a responsible person and you
    might want to keep in contact with her, keep her informed of debate and
    so on presuming she is interested, of course.

    I'd have thought meandering back to the car parks sans helmet after a
    big ride would be just about the safest place in the world, I mean, you
    are surrounded by other cyclists and people that care about cycling and
    cyclists! Need a helmet for that? I'd have thought not, you are
    amongst friends.
     
    Wm..., Jun 6, 2011
    #2
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  3. Marc

    Nigel Cliffe Guest

    [...]

    Well done Marc.

    Apart from the risk of being hit at around head height by the pedal of a
    cycle being lifted by a tired rider onto roof-racks.

    Thus proving the old rule of helmet threads, you can argue any position you
    like :)


    - Nigel
     
    Nigel Cliffe, Jun 6, 2011
    #3
  4. Marc

    Marc Guest

    For?
     
    Marc, Jun 6, 2011
    #4
  5. Marc

    Marc Guest

    I think she finally got the maths when I said that the most common
    injury for cyclists was hands or collar bones. She admitted that she had
    seen lots and lots of those injuries.
    She lost interest fairly quickly once her idea wasn't being
    enthusiastically adopted.
    To be honest, seeing the driving standards in the car park there is no
    way I would set foot out of my big Merc Van. And that's not counting the
    the cycle based business that managed to drive into the inflatable
    start/finish arch!
     
    Marc, Jun 6, 2011
    #5
  6. Marc

    Wm... Guest

    Mon, 6 Jun 2011 22:57:08 <isjgd3$s7c$>
    Talking to her on her own terms, good move. Were there any injuries on
    the ride itself? A bit of exhaustion or "here, you need some more
    fluids inside you" doesn't count as injury for me though other people
    may disagree.
    Ah, well, the St John's people I've met (more running than cycling) have
    always seemed pretty adaptable to me.

    Here is a suggestion: get in touch with the St John's people and offer
    to present your (and possibly our) point of view to them. Chances are
    they will welcome good mannered debate and be enthusiastic about having
    a guest speaker at one of their meetings. They do a lot of caring and
    I'm guessing they'd appreciate feedback from some of the people they
    care for and about. Keep it open in discussion terms, throw in some bon
    mots, etc. What could possibly go wrong?
    I demand video of that! :)
     
    Wm..., Jun 7, 2011
    #6
  7. Marc

    Wm... Guest

    Mon, 6 Jun 2011 22:56:45 <isjge8$s7c$>
    Doing worthwhile stuff, no need to spank Nigel for complimenting you.
     
    Wm..., Jun 7, 2011
    #7
  8. Marc

    Marc Guest

    No spanking intended, just seeking clarification.
     
    Marc, Jun 7, 2011
    #8
  9. Marc

    Simon Mason Guest

    If I possesed a helmet, I would have, at her request, strapped it
    around my left shoulder and explained that although I had never struck
    my head hard enough to cause injury, the same could not be said of my
    collarbone.
     
    Simon Mason, Jun 7, 2011
    #9
  10. Marc

    Simon Mason Guest

    I had the same conversation with an A+E medic who, after asking me why
    I didn't wear a helmet, admitted that he treated far more pedestrians
    and car occupants for head injuries than he did cyclists.
     
    Simon Mason, Jun 7, 2011
    #10
  11. Marc

    Nigel Cliffe Guest

    Trying to make someone think about the issue, rather than just follow
    standard dogma.
     
    Nigel Cliffe, Jun 7, 2011
    #11
  12. Marc

    Marc Guest

    She did look a little shellshocked at my use of "Plastic foam beanie hat"

    And she did admit that she didn't understand the principle of Ke.
     
    Marc, Jun 7, 2011
    #12
  13. Marc

    Marc Guest

    Yes unfortunately , two FRV's had to be tasked, :-(
    and my traffic plan to get them out through their semi sterile route
    worked! :)

    YMMV but in 30+ years of organising events of all sorts I've found them
    to be prima donnas , who abuse their position by constantly using
    vehicles and especaily FRVs to move around sites . They are forever
    going in and out, picking up and delivering staff, sandwiches, people
    who make sandwiches, taking their teenagers to their parents etc etc etc....

    Of the 35 vehicles on site on Sunday the SJA had 5, those 5 made over 25
    vehicle movements, which tied up the time of 5 volunteer marshals, who
    each time had to move barriers, and liase to make sure that the sterile
    route was actually clear for a REAL use of it by a FRV.

    Me losing my temper with " For dog's sake please think of the children"
    "It's common sense innnit?" handwringing shroudwavers.
    For someone who warned the orgaisier that I "was not good with the
    public" I think I did well this year not to lose my temper with anyone,
    but I came close on that occasion . Three times they ignored an
    instruction to "Hold There" , and kept moving into the sterile area,
    finally stoppping right in the braking zone after the finish line, then
    when given an instruction to move followed the same route as the car in
    front of them, they were driving a 7.5 tonne Luton! Sorry no pics...
     
    Marc, Jun 7, 2011
    #13
  14. Marc

    Wm... Guest

    Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:29:16
    <>
    I think we might be talking to ourselves here, what I found interesting
    about Marc's posting was that someone that wasn't a cycling person got
    to hear a cyclists POV, not because a cyclist was belabouring a
    non-cyclist but because they asked.

    I'd still like to see a pic of the start / finish blow up thing being
    driven into for the fun element, if we take ourselves too seriously and
    never see the humour we're sort of lost. Perhaps.
     
    Wm..., Jun 7, 2011
    #14
  15. Marc

    Wm... Guest

    Tue, 7 Jun 2011 21:44:08 <ism08i$3jg$>
    I don't know what the principle of Ke is. I feel I ought to know but
    don't. Explain, please, Marc.
     
    Wm..., Jun 7, 2011
    #15
  16. Marc

    Clive George Guest

    At a guess, kinetic energy, and the way it varies as the square of the
    speed making a helmet designed for low speed impact rather less useful
    at not much higher speed.
     
    Clive George, Jun 8, 2011
    #16
  17. Marc

    Wm... Guest

    Wed, 8 Jun 2011 04:23:44
    <>
    Ah, I was rather hoping for something more exotic, like "Ke is the
    secret dragon invoked by St John in dire emergencies".
     
    Wm..., Jun 8, 2011
    #17
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